tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32960447.post275278118848008679..comments2024-03-24T03:21:55.744-06:00Comments on Life On Gold Plates: Roberts vs. Smith: Death Before the Fall (part 2 of 2)BHodgeshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01751807169882645742noreply@blogger.comBlogger2125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32960447.post-13662746293642689512010-09-13T13:10:22.173-06:002010-09-13T13:10:22.173-06:00Thanks for stopping by, Tyler. I wasn't sure w...Thanks for stopping by, Tyler. I wasn't sure where your quote started or ended or where it was from, but luckily we have Google. You are quoting BRM from his "Seven Deadly Heresies" opinion piece. :) That talk is here: http://www.lds-mormon.com/heresies.shtml<br /><br />Interestingly, BRM tries to sneak an idea into the FP statement that isn't actually there. He asked if we should "accept" the FP statement "Origin of Man," and ties in the question, as though it is part of that statement, whether we should believe "that Adam was placed on this earth as an immortal being." This claim is not part of that FP statement and begs the question entirely, that Adam was placed here an "immortal being." Interestingly enough, this was the very quibble Roberts was making about how JFeS was presenting his position, as I showed in this post. <br /><br />The FP statement is here:<br /><br />http://eyring.hplx.net/Eyring/faq/evolution/FP1909.htmlBHodgeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01751807169882645742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32960447.post-16094147442307415942010-09-13T12:47:28.837-06:002010-09-13T12:47:28.837-06:00While Bruce R. McConkie generally disregarded any ...While Bruce R. McConkie generally disregarded any notion that there was death before the fall, I found a few of his comments interesting in my own research:<br /><br />There are those who believe that the theory of organic evolution runs counter to the plain and explicit principles set forth in the holy scriptures as these have been interpreted and taught by Joseph Smith and his associates. There are others who think that evolution is the system used by the Lord to form plant and animal life and to place man on earth.<br /><br />May I say that all truth is in agreement, that true religion and true science bear the same witness, and that in the true and full sense, true science is part of true religion. But may I also raise some questions of a serious nature. Is there any way to harmonize the false religions of the Dark Ages with the truths of science as they have now been discovered? Is there any way to harmonize the revealed religion that has come to us with the theoretical postulates of Darwinism and the diverse speculations descending therefrom?<br /><br />Should we accept the famous document of the First Presidency issued in the days of President Joseph F. Smith and entitled "The Origin of Man" as meaning exactly what it says? Is it the doctrine of the gospel that Adam stood next to Christ in power and might and intelligence before the foundations of the world were laid; that Adam was placed on this earth as an immortal being; that there was no death in the world for him or for any form of life until after the Fall; that the fall of Adam brought temporal and spiritual death into the world; that this temporal death passed upon all forms of life, upon man and animal and fish and fowl and plant life; that Christ came to ransom man and all forms of life from the effects of the temporal death brought into the world through the Fall, and in the case of man from a spiritual death also; and that this ransom includes a resurrection for man and for all forms of life? Can you harmonize these things with the evolutionary postulate that death has always existed and that the various forms of life have evolved from preceding forms over astronomically long periods of time?...<br /><br />These are questions to which all of us should find answers. Every person must choose for himself what he will believe. I recommend that all of you study and ponder and pray and seek light and knowledge in these and in all fields.<br /><br />I believe that the atonement of Christ is the great and eternal foundation upon which revealed religion rests. I believe that no man can be saved unless he believes that our Lord's atoning sacrifice brings immortality to all and eternal life to those who believe and obey, and no man can believe in the atonement unless he accepts both the divine sonship of Christ and the fall of Adam.<br /><br />My reasoning causes me to conclude that if death has always prevailed in the world, then there was no fall of Adam that brought death to all forms of life; that if Adam did not fall, there is no need for an atonement; that if there was no atonement, there is no salvation, no resurrection, and no eternal life; and that if there was no atonement, there is nothing in all of the glorious promises that the Lord has given us. I believe that the Fall affects man, all forms of life, and the earth itself, and that the Atonement affects man, all forms of life, and the earth itself.Tyler Andersenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13805635564560774829noreply@blogger.com